Book Review: ‘Terror of the Lost Tokusatsu Films!’ by John LeMay

by Nathan Marchand

You may remember John LeMay from our interview with him several weeks ago. He’s the author of multiple books, most notably The Big Book of Japanese Giant Monster Movies (Vol. 1 and 2) and The Big Book of Japanese Giant Monster Movies: The Lost Films. His newest book, Terror of the Lost Tokusatsu Films! (props for the Terror of Mechagodzilla-style title), is a sequel to The Lost Films. This one details the many unmade, mostly non-kaiju films from Toho, Daiei, and Toei, among others.

The book is comprised of two parts—“unmade films” and “rare films”—and multiple appendices. The films in each section are listed in chronological order, making it easy to see where they fit into Japanese film history and how they often fed into each other. In part one, readers will learn about the strange crossover film Frankenstein vs. the Human Vapor that probably led to Frankenstein Conquers the World and a pseudo-sequel to Atragon called The Flying Battleship. Heck, there was even a planned sequel to Toho’s 1973 mega-hit Submersion of Japan called After Japan Sinks. (The author of the novel that inspired the film wrote two sequels, by the way).

As fascinating as it is to see what could’ve been, part two is a treasure trove of rare gems that will make tokusatsu film hunters say, “Challenge accepted!” You’ll learn about Kaijuvision Radio favorite screenwriter Shinichi Sekizawa’s 1956 passion project Fearful Attack of the Flying Saucers, a film not unlike The Day the Earth Stood Still that Sekizawa wrote and directed(!). There’s also entries on the various Invisible Man films produced by Toho and other Japanese studios. I’d no idea that book (and film) was that popular in Japan.

Starting with part two, the book includes guest essays by several other authors. They’re connected in some way to whatever film LeMay just detailed. The best one, in my opinion, is Peter H. Brothers’ piece, “The Horror Films of Ishiro Honda,” where he analyzes The H-Man, The Human Vapor, and Matango. This is followed by a pair of essays pertaining to “A Voice in the Night,” the short story by William Hope Hodgson that inspired Matango.

Finally, the appendices are packed with even more information and great supplements. My favorite was the one that included synopses of several of the unmade films, including translations of the original story treatments. It was great reading text penned by Sekizawa and others.

The book is well-organized. Each entry flows into the next, making for quick and easy reading. There’s a bibliography and index for speedy referencing.

The biggest improvement over LeMay’s previous books is actually the presentation. In the forward by Colin McMahon, he talks about going to local video stores and discovering new Godzilla and kaiju movies and how that same sort of thrill now comes from learning about these lost films. To that end, the book is designed to resemble a video tape—complete with “VHS” printed on the spine and the sentence, “Superior Quality Video Tape Recorded in LP Mode” on the back cover. Each film entry is designed like the title of a VHS cassette, often sporting the FBI copyright warning or hyperbolic taglines. It adds some great nostalgic flavoring. I rarely see such a creatively designed book.

If you’re looking to continue a journey into lost film, read this. If you’re looking to expand your horizons, read this. Heck, if you’re a tokusatsu fan, you owe it to yourself to read this!

Nate Returns to Redeemed Otaku for Godzilla Anime

We won’t be covering the Godzilla anime films until all three of them are out, but Nate was once again invited onto the Redeemed Otaku podcast to discuss the second film in the trilogy, City on the Edge of Battle. He and his friend/co-author Eric Anderson join host (and avid KVR listener) Bex as they detail their initial reactions to the film, theorize over what the third entry may hold, and discuss its moral and theological facets.

The episode description reads as follows:

The dynamic duo, Nathan and Eric, are back! We talk about the second installment of the Netflix original Godzilla anime. Will Godzilla win? Will Haruo finally become more than a two-dimensional character? Will we ever pronounce the name of the Bilusaludo correctly?

Redeemed Otaku is a podcast that examines all things anime from a Christian worldview. It’s hosted by Bex and a rotating troupe of co-hosts.

You can listen to the new episode here.

Kaijuvision Radio Published in Nippon Quarterly – Fort Wayne’s Japanese Language Newsletter

by Brian Scherschel

As you know, Kaijuvision is headquartered in Fort Wayne, Indiana.  The local Japanese language newsletter in town is called the “Nippon Quarterly”, and they published Brian’s description of our podcast – AND they translated it into Japanese!

The Nippon Quarterly’s motto is “Everything Japanese in the Fort Wayne Area”, and is edited by Michele Yamanaka.  The newsletter is sponsored by the Japanese-American Association of Indiana, Inc. (JASI), a 501(c)(3) non-profit founded in 1988.  The JASI also sponsors the yearly Cherry Blossom Festival in Fort Wayne, which Nate and I visited this summer.

You can learn more about the JASI and their mission here: https://www.facebook.com/pg/japanindiana/about/?ref=page_internal

One of Kaijuvision’s goals is promoting cultural understanding between the United States and Japan, one of our most important allies in East Asia and the world.  Yes, our podcast is about kaiju and other Japanese movies, but as our listeners know, we do so much more than that.

And the newsletter page looks so nice!

 

 

Kaijuvision Radio at G-Fest XXV

by Nathan Marchand and Brian Scherschel

Another G-Fest has come and gone.  I (Nate) am still recovering from the post-convention blues.  Reality has been slowly sinking back in as I go back to my jobs. One would think I’d be used to this by now, what with all the conventions I attend, but it’s never easy.  Regardless, the consensus is this was the biggest and best G-Fest yet.  For a convention its size, there’s lots to do.

If you were one of our patrons on Patreon, you got exclusive up-to-the-minute access during the weekend.  If you’d like to have that and other exclusive content, please consider supporting us on Patreon!

Panels

Brian and I upped the ante this year, signing up to be part of five panels between us—including our own!  In case you didn’t know, it was titled, “Godzilla and the Japanese National Spirit.”  At least several of the attendees were listeners, who we met beforehand and after the presentation.  It really humbled us upon learning how many fans we got to be able to meet.  Our presentation went well, and our audience asked some great (and fun) questions.  One attendee was a university professor from New York, who was impressed with us.

A special thank you to everyone who attended!  For those who couldn’t make it, we’ll be sharing the audio and video July 25.

I (Brian) was a member of the “GINO” Panel, which discussed Godzilla 1998 on its 20th anniversary.  It was my first panel ever, and I shared some of the wisdom from the episode on the movie.  My main points included how the ad campaign was better than the movie, that it should have ended at 90 minutes, how no one could say those lines and sound good, and how there are many far better movies out there if you just want a good popcorn movie.  Half of the audience said they hated the movie, so I felt like I represented them well.

Saturday was a busy day for me (Nate).  I was on three panels, with two of them in a row! The first was “Godzilla Stories,” an annual panel where people share their fanfictions and/or how Godzilla has impacted their lives.  There were several touching stories—including one from a mother who lives in Fort Wayne!—and I got to encourage some young writers with their fanfictions. The second was the similar “Art of Kaiju Writing.”  You may remember this as the panel I got myself on at the last minute last year.  This was a writing advice panel, and I was one of four “pros” answering questions.  This was immediately followed by the “Pacific Rim 2” panel.  I was one of four people who discussed the film.  By “discuss,” I mean, “utterly destroy.”  Nobody on it liked it much, and I was quite outspoken about it.

Celebrities

We were all saddened when the great Akira Takarada, the “Godfather of G-Fest,” was unable to visit us.  However, J.D. Lees and the organizers were able to book not one but two great replacements: Don Frye and Kenpachiro Satsuma. Brian and I made sure to meet them as well as Megumi Odaka and G-Fest staple Robert Scott Field.  I’m happy to say my Blu-ray of Godzilla vs. King Ghidorah has been signed by three of its stars.

I (Brian) was really happy to meet Megumi Odaka for the first time.  Incidentally, Godzilla vs. Biollante was selected in another panel to be the “Greatest Godzilla Movie of All Time”, which seemed fitting, as this was her first of the six movies she appeared in.  It was fun meeting Don Frye and his panel was overwhelmingly entertaining and fun.

Here are some photos of our meetings:

Nate meets Robert Scott Field (left) and Kenpachiro Satsuma (right).

 

Nate meets Megumi Odaka.

We meet Don Frye.

Brian meets Megumi Odaka.

Interviews

For the first time, we interviewed guests for the podcast at this year’s G-Fest.  The first was John LeMay, author of 18 books, including The Big Book of Japanese Giant Monster Movies: The Lost Films and his newest book, Terror of the Lost Tokusatsu Films.  Our second interview was Danny DiManna (aka Danzilla93), a listener and, more importantly, the creator of the Godzilla Novelization Project.  His goal is to write a novelization of all 30+ Japanese Godzilla films.

Both of these interviews will be posted sometime in August.

Personal Anecdotes (Nate)

I’m glad I went to last year’s G-Fest because it helped me understand the convention’s unique personality.  That made it easier to “break in,” so to speak, this year.  It also helped that Brian and I stayed in the Crown Plaza Hotel, where the convention was held, which also allowed us to experience another part of G-Fest: the in-house TV station.  Starting Thursday and running until Monday morning, the hotel’s informational channel broadcast various tokusatsu films, TV series, and documentaries.  Brian and I were able to watch things like Super Inframan, Yokai Monsters, and Agon: Atomic Dragon.  It was fun.  As the G-Fest program put it, turn off sports and news for a few days.

I also attended many of the film screenings at the Pickwick Theatre.  The first double-feature on Thursday was The Valley of Gwangi and Dinsosaurus!  I’d not seen either one, so it was a treat to see them on the big screen.  Gwangi is a legitimately good film while Dinosaurus! is asking to be on Mystery Science Theatre 3000 (it kinda has been already).  I haven’t laughed at or riffed a film so much at the theatre in my life as I did at the latter.  What made it better was my fellow theatre-goers were also riffing it, adding to the fun.  Friday night I went with Danny and his friends to see Rampage, which I hadn’t seen yet.  It wasn’t great, but it was better than it had any right to be.  Saturday I was joined by them again to see the main event: a screening of Godzilla and Mothra: The Battle for Earth, which was introduced by Satsuma.  While I’ve seen this film many times, I went primarily for the experience.  Did it help the Heisei film seeing on the big screen?  Not really.  It actually made the flaws more obvious.  However, I saw it with a crowd of fans, which made the screening exciting.

One of the things that makes G-Fest special is it feels like a family.  It’s a small and active con that is slowly growing.  Everyone knows everyone and is welcoming to newcomers.  Now that we’ve gotten more involved with the show, Brian and I feel even more like a part of that family.  We love it.

Here’s to another 25 G-Fests…and beyond!

Sneak Preview for Our G-Fest XXV Panel

by Nathan Marchand

Hello, G-Fans and kaiju lovers!

Are you a longtime listener who wants a refresher on what Brian and I will be discussing at our G-Fest XXV panel? Or are you visiting our website for the first time after attending our panel? (If so, welcome to our little corner of Monster Island!) This blog is for all of you!

Our panel, “Godzilla and the Japanese National Spirit,” will be in the Kennedy Room at the Grand Plaza Hotel Friday, July 13, at 3pm (CST). The Japanese national spirit is a hallmark topic of our show and one of the things that separates us from other kaiju podcasts. The panel will distill much of what we’ve discussed in several episodes into a 40-minute presentation. However, if you’d like to get more details on the subjects we cover, here are the episodes we recommend you binge-listen during your trip to and/or from G-Fest this year.

Episode 1: Introduction to the Godzilla Journey

A journey of 37 weekly episodes begins with one small step. In our first episode, we introduce ourselves and explain our philosophy for the podcast as we move ahead. The basic groundwork is laid here.

Episode 3: Gojira (1954)

There’s a lot to cover in the first film, so we had to split it into two episodes. In this one, we discuss the original masterpiece, focusing on the political and historical references and cultural significance. For the related topic, we explain the basics of the U.S. Occupation of Japan and how it changed the nation.

Episode 4: Godzilla, King of the Monsters! (1956)

Appropriately, we discuss the negative aspects of the Occupation—such as the War Crimes Tribunal—and how it affected U.S.-Japan relations in our episode on the Americanized version of the original film. These aren’t easy things to talk about, but they are important to know to understand the context in which Godzilla was created.

Episode 17: Godzilla vs. Gigan (1972)

Not only is this one of Brian’s favorite G-films, it’s arguably one of the most underestimated entries in the franchise. While created at a time when the Godzilla series was in decline, it’s full of hidden meaning. Beneath the surface careful viewers will see screenwriter Shinichi Sekizawa’s meta-commentary on Godzilla as a pop culture icon and, more importantly, a satirical examination of globalization as it related to early 1970s Japan.

Episode 21: The Return of Godzilla (1984)

For this modern classic, we show how Japan found itself in a much different place than in the mid-1950s. This film is entrenched in the Cold War era, depicting a Japan caught between U.S. and Soviet Union as they pressure Japan to allow one of them to nuke Godzilla. Now they must choose between their greatest ally and an immediate threat to the north.

Episode 37: Shin Godzilla (2016)

We can’t say this enough: This is our greatest episode. There’s so much to discuss in this film—especially the misperceptions the American Godzilla fandom has about it. And we still probably didn’t catch everything! The 3-11 Disasters. The JSDF. Japan’s place in the modern world. Americans are separated by time and culture with the previous films and saw them with the benefit of hindsight, but Shin Godzilla came to us quickly and unfiltered. We hope this episode changes how American fans view this film.

This is a great sampler of our podcast. We hope you’ll listen to all of our episodes and continue to listen when season two starts in September.  We’ll be covering classic Toho tokusatsu and new Godzilla films as they’re released.

See you at G-Fest!

Or if you’re reading/listening after the con, thanks for coming!

If you like what we’re doing, please consider supporting us on Patreon. We have some great rewards/benefits!

G-Fest XXV Preview

by Nathan Marchand

We’re just one week away from G-Fest XXV!  The show will be held July 13-15 (with some preliminary events July 12) at the Crowne Plaza O’Hare in Rosemont, Illinois.

Brian and I will be part of several panels throughout the weekend, including a live episode we’ll be recording in the Kennedy Room Friday at 3pm (CST) titled, “Godzilla and the Japanese National Spirit.”  Besides that, here’s the rest of our panel schedule:

Brian: “Zilla’s 20th Birthday” – Friday 12pm (CST) Ballroom 1
Nate:   “Godzilla Stories” – Saturday 10am (CST) Kennedy Room
            “The Art of Kaiju Writing” – Saturday 1pm (CST) Kennedy Room
            “Pacific Rim 2” – Saturday 2pm (CST) Ballroom 1

We’ll have exclusive content for our Patreon supporters throughout the weekend, including pictures, videos, and other updates.  We’ll also give supporters exclusive early access to the recording of our panel either Friday night or Saturday morning.  If you’d like to be a part of that, become one of our patrons on Patreon!

If by some chance you don’t know what this is, here’s a brief description from the event’s website:

G-FEST is the largest regular gathering of Godzilla and Japanese monster fans in the world.  Held each summer, it typically attracts more than 1000 attendees, but has seen a gradual increase in attendance over the past few years.  G-FEST 2014 was the most successful convention to date, bringing in about 3000 Japanese science fiction and fantasy film fans!

 

G-FEST is a family-oriented convention which caters to a wide variety of interests within the kaiju genre.  G-FEST features presentations and Q & A sessions by actors and crew from the Japanese Godzilla films, fan presentations on topics of interest, contests and gaming, new and classic kaiju movies, the western world’s largest kaiju-oriented dealers room, and lots of fun and camaraderie.

The guests for this year include Megumi Odaka, who famously played psychic Miki Saegusa in the Heisei Godzilla films; suit actor Kenpachiro Satsuma, who’s best-known for playing Godzilla himself in all seven Heisei films; actor/wrestler/mixed martial artist Don Frye, who played Capt. Gordon in Godzilla: Final Wars; and suit and model maker Keizo Murase.

Sadly, due to surgery, the great Akira Takarada, the “godfather of G-Fest,” will not be able to attend.  We here at Kaijuvision Radio wish him a speedy recovery and hope he will return to the convention soon.

The nearby Pickwick Theatre will be screening kaiju films starting Thursday with The Valley of Gwangi and Dinosaurus! in the afternoon and then Mighty Peking Man and Pacific Rim: Uprising that evening.  There will be a screening of Rampage, starring Dwayne Johnson, Friday night and a special screening of Godzilla and Mothra: The Battle for Earth Saturday night with an introduction by Megumi Odaka (and, I assume, Satsuma-san).

We can’t wait to spend an exciting weekend with our fellow G-fans and kaiju lovers!

What the Podcast Taught Me about Japan

by Nathan Marchand

Image by geralt. Courtesy of www.Pixabay.com.

Many listeners have told Brian and I that the podcast has been educational for them. Not only did they learn things about Godzilla films they didn’t know, but they also learned much about Japan (which is just as important). It was a goal we set early in our planning process, and I’m happy to see that we’ve succeeded. It’s one of the things that sets us apart from other Godzilla/kaiju podcasts.

However, listeners weren’t the only ones who learned new things—I did as well.

That might seem like an unusual thing to admit. I’m podcasting about this, after all, which makes me something of an expert, right? In many regards, that’s true. I’ve been a Godzilla fan since I was a teen, and I’ve absorbed a lot of knowledge about the franchise over the years. But in researching for Kaijuvision Radio, I feel like I’ve more than doubled my knowledge about these films.

One of my favorite “discoveries” was learning about screenwriter Shinichi Sekizawa. Being a writer myself, I normally pay attention to screenwriter credits in films, but I never bothered to look up anything about him. I wish there was more information on him because he’s easily the most underappreciated member of Toho’s Showa era creative team. That’s why we take every opportunity to mention Sekizawa and the huge contributions he made to the franchise. He really did help make Godzilla the kaiju the fandom knows and loves.

More importantly, though, I learned much about the country that created Godzilla: Japan. Before this podcast, much of what I knew about the country was part of “Cool Japan.” I grew up watching G-films and anime and playing Japanese video games, among the country’s other exports. I learned things about the “real” Japan, but I still only knew the country in a pedestrian sort of way.

Now thanks to Brian and my research, I’ve become acquainted with the Japanese national spirit, which is one of the trademark subjects of our podcast. I’d heard a few things related to Japanese history—the Meiji Restoration, WWII, the Occupation, etc.—but not in detail. Things like the Japanese Economic Miracle, the Lost Decade, and the Yasukuni Shrine I didn’t know. One of the most eye-opening shows for me was episode 19 (Godzilla vs. Mechagodzilla) when I dove deep into the rabbit hole that is Okinawa. If I once knew the island had been returned to Japan in the early 1970s, I’d forgotten, so I didn’t realize Toho made that Godzilla film for a people with a long history of animosity toward the mainland. It gave greater significance to a movie that’d long been just a fun romp.

It wasn’t just that film, though. The entire franchise has been enhanced by my new knowledge. Kaijuvision Radio is a film appreciation podcast, and part of that is understanding the original context for a movie’s creation. It doesn’t happen in a vacuum. I, like most people, am separated by time and culture with these films. I needed to be educated in order to more fully appreciate them. Without that, I was missing part of the story. How was I to know that the Xiliens were an expression of how the Japanese felt about foreigners? (See episode 11 for all the details). To me it was just a cool alien invasion film. Now it’s much, much more. Even something as recent as Shin Godzilla (episode 37) I wouldn’t have understood nearly as much if not for everything I’d learned in planning the podcast.

So, listeners, what was the most educational episode of Kaijuvision Radio for you? What did you learn from us that you didn’t know before?

If you’d like to help us continue creating podcasts that are both entertaining and enlightening, please support us on Patreon. We just added a new membership level with some great rewards, so don’t miss out!

The Speed and Efficiency of Content Release in Season 1

By Brian Scherschel

Nate and I are creating wholly original content: Original structure, original thoughts, original opinions, original videos, original music, original art, and an original approach. We utilized our innate strengths and experiences, and after two years of planning, Kaijuvision Radio was born.

We’re fast and efficient.

We covered the entire Godzilla franchise in just 8½ months, releasing 37 weekly episodes in a row, each one with a scenic background video. The grand total came to over 50 hours of content. No one has ever done this. But it wasn’t exhausting – it was exhilarating!

Moreover, we paid attention to what we were doing the entire time.

After all, speed is nothing if you aren’t doing it right. We created our part one film descriptions in order to properly introduce the movies and compare them to each other. We structured our discussions to avoid rambling. Most importantly, we defined the goals of the podcast so clearly that they became second nature: Raise the bar of the conversation about the movies, analyze Japanese historical and cultural inputs, embrace how Godzilla changes over time, and track relevant Japanese issues as we progress. Through this unique approach, we were able to demonstrate that there’s so much more to Godzilla than meets the eye in an informative and entertaining way.

The kaiju fandom is a small yet very special group. We have met some amazing people, and our patrons have been superb. We are thankful for all of their assistance.

Our panel at G-Fest will be recorded as an episode to be released in July. Then we will continue our film journey in September, with one movie episode per month plus more interesting content in store. If you like what we’re doing, check out our Patreon page: https://www.patreon.com/kaijuvision.

We have a $1, $5, $10, and now a $25 tier introduced today. We have our official Kaijuvision Radio t-shirt, and our new official coffee mug.

Kaiju Lover ($1/month) gets you our undying thanks and access to exclusive behind-the-scenes content, including our G-Fest activities and progress reports on our work.

Kaiju Commander ($5/month) gets you the previous tier’s rewards plus a monthly shout-out in an episode and listing on our episode descriptions.

Kaiju Visionary ($10/month) gets you the previous tier’s rewards plus our official Kaijuvision Radio t-shirt after 4 straight months.

Our new reward tier introduced today is:

Kaiju Connoisseur ($25/month) gets you the t-shirt and our official Kaijuvision Radio mug after 3 straight months.

Donations go towards the merchandise, advertising, equipment, website, and data transfer fees that keep our podcast running.

To really see what we’re made of, we strongly recommend Episode 37, our Shin Godzilla episode. We hope it will change the way the fandom discusses this incredible movie.

We’d like to send a shout-out to our patrons Kyoei Toshi and Sean Stiff for pledging at the Kaiju Visionary level. Thank you for your support! We really appreciate it.

Regarding Our Groundbreaking Shin Godzilla Episode

By Brian Scherschel

Some reviews so far about our revolutionary Shin Godzilla episode:

Kyoei Toshi (one of our Patrons) (via Twitter): “Not only the best examination of Shin in English, but the single best podcast episode dealing with Godzilla ever done. These guys have done an incredible amount of preparation and research for their series on the Godzilla films, and it shows in the finished product. Well done!”

Geek Devotions (via Facebook): “Check out Kaijuvision Radio’s review of ‘Shin Godzilla’. It’s probably the most comprehensive and informative discussion on the film that we’ve had the opportunity to listen to. These guys did a great job breaking down the film!”

Ben Avery (host of the podcasts Strangers and Alien & Welcome to Level Seven): “Great job with ‘Shin Godzilla’. I did find it interesting that you seemed to be arguing with invisible people who didn’t like it. I kept saying, ‘I know! I agree!’ I’m just not part of the online fandom. Whenever you talked about fan response I found it very interesting.”

We expect this episode to significantly change how Shin Godzilla is discussed in the American fandom.

In our incredible, groundbreaking season finale episode on this film, we challenge some of the conventional wisdom in the American fandom about the movie’s politics. We are of the opinion that this movie is not nationalist propaganda. Patriotic, yes. Nationalistic, no. Militaristic, no.

We wholeheartedly embrace a Godzilla that changes over time, just as it always has. Since Shin Godzilla is about the here and now, we explain the situation Japan is in right now, and the challenges they face. Because of marketing (“Cool Japan”) and the exaggerated power that nostalgia has, we say in plain English just why we’re seeing these political issues in the movie.

Shin Godzilla is not all that different from many other movies in the series. It fits into current events and stays relevant. It helps people work through trauma. It channels the public’s outrage. It expresses the Japanese national spirit. Using only the military fails. There are many more reasons.

If we had received a heavily edited version of Shin Godzilla in America and then had to wait 30+ years for it to be released, fans would have been furious. However, the result of this is that the politics came through completely unfiltered. If we had to wait decades until seeing the political elements of the movie, the political messages would be dulled by the passage of time. This time around, we get the full impact, so it’s natural that some Americans would have a reaction to what they see.

Since Hideki Anno made this movie, and since it deals with complex issues, we should not mistake meditating on issues the same thing as endorsing positions. We don’t endorse any positions either, but we do explain what’s going on in the film with all of these issues. There is also a lot of satire in this movie right up against a lot of realism. We sort all of that out. I explain all of the bureaucratic elements of the movie because it’s such an important part of the movie. We then comprehensively examine the events of 3/11/2011 and its aftermath better than anyone in the Godzilla podcasting community. We link the timeline of the disasters to the events in the film as they unfold.

Anyone who’s in the American Godzilla fandom needs to hear what we have to say in this episode. I have a background in comparative politics and international affairs, and our perspective on the movie from that angle is impressive. It’s totally worth listening to.

You can listen to this amazing episode here.